It’s funny that the last election focused so heavily on left-wing radicals since there hasn’t been any kind of left-wing radical activity in almost 50 years. I rarely hear anything about right-wing radicals despite the fact that they must outnumber the left-wing variety 1000 to 1 at this point. Wasn’t it a right-wing radical who caused the Oklahoma City Bombing? Now Homeland Security says white power militias are swelling in ranks thanks to the economic recession coupled by a black president. Gov. Rick Perry has affirmed Texas’ right to succession. (Too bad he doesn’t realize he’s playing right into Chuck Norris’ hands.)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/14/federal-agency-warns-of-radicals-on-right/
http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/12227/
And here’s an article about how Obama has basically chosen no one but Goldman Sachs big shots to head up the economic crisis.
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/21218
State Succession and State Sovereignty are two completely different things. Don’t paint Perry as crazy when Hawaii, Michigan, New Hampshire, and Washington (all liberal) have done the same thing. Please study up on a subject before you post, you liberals tend to have a problem with facts.
Secession not Succession, typo.
Texas wants to split, let them. Mexico will take them over anyway, and all the anglo’s who wanted to start their own right wing country should be turned away at the boarder when they try to flee. Nice to see that Texans are so stu… proud enough to want to split, too bad they need the rest of this country to survive.
@Kevin, Mexico is doing their best to take over Texas (and Arizona and California, and, …) through hoards of illegal aliens flooding over our borders. The liberals in the US govt will do nothing to stop the flood.
America’s founding fathers declared quite rightly that the right to govern is predicated upon the consent of the governed. If the national government is unsuitable for the people, then succession must absolutely be considered as one of the options for remedy.
if texas were to succeed good. mif they dont want a totalitarian leader, lave n ow before he tightens his grip
Well, 18% of them say they would vote to secede, I say let them!
It’d make for a very interesting experiment ^^
Texas has the legal right to and they do NOT need the rest of the country. They have 85% of the oil refineries and enough oil and natural gas to provide the state for the next 300 years. The rest of the country needs Texas more than Texas needs them.
Yeah, and the rest of the country is just going to let that happen. In case you didn’t know, some states tried to secede a while back and it didn’t go so well. But if you want to break off and make Ninja Cowboy President of Texas, go right ahead. Just please stop pretending its guys like you and Todd Palin the Alaskan separatist who are the “real Americans” when you don’t even want to be a part of America.
It’s not liberal or conservative, it’s bankruptcy and take over or revolution. These liberal/conservative issues are minuscule when it comes to the real problems.
It’s not liberal or conservative, it’s bankruptcy and take over or revolution. These liberal/conservative issues are minuscule when it comes to the real problems. Who would WANT to live in America as it is today – $5.7 billion Americorps, a “domestic force”, bill signed 4/20/09 by Mr. Obama, hundreds of gun laws, a new currency, the unregulated Federal Reserve… Rebellions have occurred plenty of times in history and now is our time. Let Texas secede, I’ll move there.
What gun laws? The ones in your head? And new currency? You’re a fucking idiot. There’s no new gun laws and no new currency coming out. And don’t give me that stuff about it not being about left or right. You couldn’t stop grovelling at Bush’s feet as he simultaneously cut taxes for the rich, went on a crazy spending spree, tried to hand Social Security over to the stock market, started an unnecessary war, before running the economy into the ground and then bailing out the banks. But its finally when some of the money might actually be used to help you guys, like to build a bridge, or that we get some regulation on the billion dollar gambles that have just sank our ship, that you just can’t take any more. We’ve had insanely wasteful spending and deregulation for 8 years and you’re going to tell me that its just a coincidence that you guys are revolting on year 9 when it just so happens that a new administration that you oppose politically has been put into place? And it has nothing to do with liberal or conservative…. right…. And Fox News isn’t promoting these stupid tea parties, they’re just “covering” them.
You guys? Ha, you have no idea who I am. H.R. 257 – Bill covers gun safety and accessibility for those under the age of 21. In Great Britain, banning youth shooting sports was one of the first things to go before they declared guns illegal. February 25, just over five weeks after Inauguration Day, Attorney General Eric Holder announced that the Obama Administration will seek to reinstate the expired federal “assault weapon” ban and impose ADDITIONAL restrictions. What goes hand-in-hand with the establishment of gun control? Enslavement and/or extermination. Let’s not let history repeat itself.
Oh noossss! Not a ban on assault rifles! With those assault rifles, we could have taken on the government’s tanks, jets, and nuclear missiles, but now we’ll be their slaves. Remind me, what part of American history included the government enslaving people shortly after successfully teleporting all the citizen’s weaponry away from them?
Agreed. Mr. Bush fucked up. But we ask why? Not for the people but for the gain of the Federal Reserve International Bankers. Presidents are like managers at fast food restaurant and the Federal Reserve Bankers are the franchise owners. How do these bankers make a lot of their money? Wars. That dollar you have in your pocket is actually less than $1 because the Federal Reserve loans the U.S. it’s money AT INTEREST. Texas knows all to well what schemes the Fed is up to. Oh, no comment on Americorps?
Ah, not American history yet. In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to
1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were
Rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5
Million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
Exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a
Total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves
Were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million
Political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
Exterminated
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981,
100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
Exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one
Million educated’ people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
Up and exterminated.
But you say it won’t happen to us, we live in America.
Sorry I didn’t touch on every insane rant. Yes, Americorps is a community service outreach program Clinton created, like some Liberal Eagle Scouts group. Just like the ACORN crap, it’s more far right-wing shadow puppetry, making some stupid outreach program a symbol of all that is evil in the world. I hate Clinton for a lot of reasons. That ain’t one of them.
And that rant on people getting killed in World History after a gun roundup, that’s typical Survivalist/Libertarian crap. Do you really believe your fellow countrymen are going to start rounding you up and exterminating you? And do you really think we could defend ourselves if they did, what with the billions of dollars you far right-wingers have poured into the military industrial complex? If that’s the way you perceive the world you’re living in, go move out into the deep woods with your Dixie flags, or maybe even, GASP! Canada!
Do you think that AmeriCorps is one-tenth as powerful as the Heritage Foundation or the oil conglomerates that had Bush, Cheney, and Rice in their pockets?
Yeah, I can sympathize with people who don’t believe the government should be involved in these outreach programs, but when they add on to that the Pro-Life stance of enforcing poverty through unwanted children and then the belief of flat taxes just to kick the poor down while they’re at it, the Libertarian philosophy starts losing the argument for balance. The problem is there is SO much freaking waste that is a million times worse than these liberal programs right-wingers point to. How much money is lost and wasted on high tech defense crap we don’t need is astounding, and puts all these little ACORN and AmeriCorp programs to shame. Libertarians have definitely lost perspective and have pretty much been trapped in Clinton years.
Well, I would rather be knowledgeable about what is going on than sit around and let it come to my front door. No, I don’t believe my fellow countrymen would round up/exterminate his fellow man, but when I look at AmeriCorps and hearing that it will be a voluntary mandatory program that is integrated into the curriculum of all students elementary school and up, combat training integrated also, it worries me. I’m sorry, but whoever is running that kind of government would have too much control. Wars are bad and yes, massive spending on the military industrial complex is indeed a problem, but whoever would do the rounding up/exterminating would first use a ground force(AmeriCorps) rather than bombing a city. No, AmeriCorps is not as big as those conglomerates but who had Bush and others to do their bidding? The greedy Federal Reserve bankers. Another thing, I am excited about the president’s stance on the need for renewable energy but can you tell me that they will not use this as a way to tax every thing that supposedly harms the environment – from corn production to methane released by cattle ultimately causing farms to go out of business and/or taken over by the government. Just look at GMC, not that taxes did it, but can a CEO really be taken out of office by the president?
Okay, let me explain something to you. Michelle Bachmann is a moron. She’s already called for patriot tests to root out the socialist scourge from her fellow congressmen. So when she starts ranting about an outreach program turning into a regime of forced re-education for American youth, you can be pretty sure its not because she has some super secret information no one else knows about. It takes some serious mental gymnastics to describe the Obama administration, which has given away billions to Wall Street and bent over backwards to avoid nationalization and pursue a policy that preserves the private for-profit status of the bailed-out banks, as a militaristic dictatorship of anti-wealth, anti-private property forces, but that’s what you right-wingers have managed to do.
Americorps is a community service agency. The extra money going into it is for educational perks. And how can something be a “voluntary mandatory program”? Voluntary means you don’t have to do it; mandatory means you do. And if you don’t think your fellow country men are going to round up and exterminate you, then how can you say AmeriCorps is going to be the one doing it?
So how many people do you think it would take to do all this rounding up? And to what profit? Hitler made a lot of money rounding up and exterminating Jews, but he was able to use the long-lasting cultural anti-Semitism in Germany to do it. There’s nothing like that here. No soldier is going to follow orders like that, not that we even have the manpower here to accomplish something like that. We can’t even round up the illegal immigrants in this country.
Speaking of which, I taught in South Texas for a year, and I can tell you that if Texas somehow did secede in this fantasy world where Washington would allow that, it would become de facto North Mexico. South Texas is 90% Mexican. When another teacher I was talking to on my first day at the job read in the newspaper that Texas was now less than 50% Caucasian, he was surprised that hadn’t happened a long time ago.
And really, taxes have become a third wheel in politics. All the other traditional values of conservatives are fading away so now rednecks get obsessed over taxes just so they have something to differentiate themselves from libruls. Bush gave millions in “farm relief” to the biggest welfare queens of them all while excluding factory farms from regulations, but I guess we’re still too mean to the poor farmers who get paid here to burn their crop in order to keep prices high. Bush just enacted the largest tax breaks in history and that didn’t save us from the financial collapse. Now Obama is going to give 95% of Americans another tax cut, but that’s not good enough because the millionaires are going to have to go back to paying the taxes they did under Clinton.
When the excesses of business interests and their political proteges in Washington leave the regular guy broke and screwed, the response is always for the lower and middle classes to split down the middle and find reasons to get pissed off not at their greedy bosses but at each other. But actual rich people can’t ever be the target. It’s a classic peasant mentality: going into fits of groveling and bowing whenever the master’s carriage rides by, then fuming against the Turks in Crimea or the Jews in the Pale or whoever after spending fifteen hard hours in the fields. You know you’re a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and taking your shit. Whatever the master does, you’re on board. When you get frisky, he sticks a big cross in the middle of your village, and you spend the rest of your life praying to it with big googly eyes. Or he puts out newspapers full of innuendo about this or that faraway group and you immediately salute and rush off to join the hate squad. A good peasant is loyal, simpleminded, and full of misdirected anger. Can’t be mad at AIG, can’t be mad at Citi or Goldman Sachs. The real villains have to be ACORN, or AmeriCorps, or anti-AIG protesters! If ever there was a textbook case of peasant thinking, it’s struggling middle-class Americans burned up in defense of taxpayer-funded bonuses to millionaires.
Rant. You passed. That was the test. I like that last bit there.
What’s wrong with taxing everything that can possibly harm the environment? I’d much rather them tax stuff like that than tax my income, to whatever extent is possible.
Well, Angelo. You see when the cost of doing business goes up so does the price of their product. When taxes on energy companies goes up, you get stuck with the bill. You are being taxed, it’s just an indirect tax.
Yeah, Thomas, and when you lower taxes more than the government can handle, they just raise the price on other things, like parking tickets, so you end up getting an indirect tax even when they lower taxes.
Maybe Thomas. But at least I get to choose what products I’m willing to pay the tax for. Income tax is actually worse from a capitalism standpoint: it doesn’t matter what I buy.
Hey bahumuth, you forgot one part, “It’s really weird stuff. And bound to get weirder, I imagine, as this crisis gets worse and more complicated.” Way to copy someone else(The Pragmatic Progressive). I actually thought that was original. Oh, any thoughts on the swine flu. Mine are that and “they” will want you to get vaccinated and control your mind with certain types of drugs, and the jews were right lol.
Yeah, I admit, I stole part of that rant from Matt Tabbai, mostly because I had thought of something just like it (okay, not the part about the Turks in Crimea, but including the part about the Jews) and wished I had wrote it. If it had been a real post I would have given credit, but I figured since it was a personal response to one person I didn’t need to add a Works Cited.
A couple of points to previous posts.
-Texas does indeed have the right to leave the Union. Do not confuse that with sucession. Texas was never part of US territory. It was an independent republic that joined the US by TREATY. That treaty allows for withdrawal. They did it in 1861 while other states suceeded. They can vote to simply cancel the treaty thereby restoring the republic.
-An earlier comment about them ratifying the 13th Amendment has nothing to do with it. That only concerns the abolition of slavery.
-Lasty, Texas has huge oil and gas reserves which are presently capped by the US government. Should Texas open those wellheads their oil reserves and production capacity are sufficiently large to allow them entry into OPEC. And they would likely be able to control their border security better than the federal government does.
Texas sucession is fast becoming a popular idea in the Lone Star State and it has nothing whatever to do with Obama. It has to do with a general dissatisfaction with poor government generally in DC. It’s a response to anger at both parties and runaway federal government.
Josiah, like your “gun history lesson” wasn’t copied… http://www.google.com/search?q=%22about+20+million+dissidents%2C+unable+to+defend+themselves%22
Dan, there’s a big difference between the law de jure and the law de facto. By law, you are right, Texas has the right to withdraw, but its oil fields aren’t going to make up for federal finances. It doesn’t matter how popular it becomes. It isn’t going to happen, and if it did happen, it would blow up in the faces of the anarchists trying to pull it off.
Oh it’s a lot more than just federal finances. Think about it. No more free commerce across the borders. The borders around TX now become entry points to the USA. Do citizens in TX keep their US citizenship? Do they become TX citizens? They’d have to go through customs, unless they wanted to be like the rest of the migrant workers who just sneak in. It would be a big mess, and it wouldn’t serve TX very well in the end. They’d be up to themselves dealing with Mexico on top of that.
Bahumuth, Angelo, I think you both miss the point. First off, any “law de jure” is not a law at all. All laws are de facto. The oil and gas fields would in fact make up for a large element of income for the state. Texas as with most states, actually gets very little in “federal finances”. Some points: the Texas economy is growing at 4% per annum – the fastest growing economy in the country. Even higher than the US average before the economic downturn. Texas has no state income tax. Business revenues offset the requirement. I doubt it will either but the point is, it could and it would in fact work. Texas has more exportable natural resources and technology than most European countries. It has ports, an international border, and a huge landmass. There is simply no reason why it would not function quite well as an independent nation.
As for commerce across the border, it would be an ideal port of entry for all manner of goods which now currently transit through Texas anyway. Morover, think of the tariffs they could levy on transshipped goods.
And yes, should they withdraw, its citizens would be sovereign citizens of the Republic of Texas. You do not have to give up your citizenship in the US to become a citizen of another nation unless that nation requires it. There are multitudes of Americans with dual citizenship. Go through customs to drive to Oklahoma? That would depend on Texas and the US. You don’t have go through customs to drive into Canada. But if it were mandates by either government yeah, you would have to. So you get delayed 15 minutes at the Red River. An excellent opportunity get gas and a burger on your way.
And we currently deal with Mexico on our own as far as Migrants. Go to the Rio Grande and find a Border Patrol agent who is not at a road entrance to the US. Most border control is done by property owners who have lands on the river. Ranchers and farmers who chase em off.
The idea of Texas not being able to exist as an independent state is as far fetched as Poland, Hungary, Serbia, Montenegro, Albania, Lithuania, Ukraine, etc etc etc not being able to exist outside of the Soviet Union. And we all saw how fast they built successful economies.
All laws are de facto is bull. Texas, in its infinite wisdom, had a Sodomy law on the books that went unenforced for decades. But, no, this is the funny part — the law was so fucking old that “Sodomy” included oral sex and sex aids. Vibrators had to be sold as “shoulder massagers.” But no one cared until some cops busted in on the wrong house during a drug raid one day and tried to blame the victims by arresting the gay couple who were having sex when they got their door busted down.
And that stuff about the oil providing finance is also bullshit. You guys are living in fantasy land and Rick Perry is riding the crazy express to GOP’s new capital city, Wingnutia, which now makes up a whopping 20% of the population.
Now that the swine flu is breaking out, being all alone on the border with Mexico without any vaccines doesn’t seem so romantic any more. Rick Perry is asking the Federal government for “37,430 courses of antiviral medications from the Strategic National Stockpile to Texas.” Maybe Washington should tell him to go ask Chuck Norris if he can help.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/26/tx-perry-swine-flu/
Dan, I think you’re the one who missed the point: just because it technically CAN be done in the absolute sense of ability (regardless of legality, etc.), that doesn’t mean it’s a good thing for TX. And it doesn’t mean that anyone who is running things is doing anything more except wishful daydreaming. They know they “can’t” do it in the sense that they’d be cutting off their nose to spite their face.
But having not lived in TX for a while now, I do have to wonder why we’re talking about this. The article quoted on this post doesn’t seem to say anything about secession (or whatever). And I agree, all states have a certain level of sovereignity, and IMO should have a bit more.
Let Texas go !!!Good ridance. Then Texas and The CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC can have a war and California can kick Texas’ ass. Then we can give Texas back to Mexico. California is the super state ,not texass .
Califonia cant go from the Union cuz they need the money, This state is so ridiculous.
We are cutting our kids education to fund the illegals that are runnning across the border as ast as they can. Arnold is stressing about what to do. Cut of the damn welfare to the illegals. I vote for Texas to Seceed and become an independant country. They don’t need Obama’s way of life. Capitalism and Freedom not dictatorship and socialism. Go Tezas. I’m with you.
John what makes you think California is so great. We finance all the illegals that run across the boarder, we do regocnize that ENGLISH is our nation language. If you don’t speak Spanish you are wrong. Hey the weather is great, but I’m damn tired os supporsting people who don’t belong here. Funny when I was a student in nursing school I had NO medical insuance for my family but they run across the boarder and automatically have it. This is why our state is in the mess it is. Arnold needs to get a backbone and stand up for this state. I’d move to Texas in a heartbeat if they seceed from the union.
Whoever says texas would die without federal money is stupid. We are carrying the country on our back because we are one of the only states not losing everything in the economy right now. We produced more jobs since the start of 2009 then all other states put together. We get roughly 79 cents from the fed for every 1 dollar we pay in taxes to the fed. We are self sufficient in food, oil, and many other areas. We have some of the most inovative companies in the united states. We supply more personel for the US military then any other state. Do I really need to go on? The USA would be crippled without texas, not the other way around. Put that in your pipe and smoke it libs.
No, we’re conservatives because we’re trying to keep the union together just like Abe Lincoln. You’re the liberal. Why does every stance suddenly become “conservative” just because a hilly billy redneck takes it? Hmmmmmm.
For those of you who wish to go to TEXAS and succeed, please be our nations’ guest. We will
then really close our borders and let Mexico
take care of you like “BIG BUBBA” would in prision. Mexico would eat Texas alive if they
left the union. The texas Gov knows this which is why he tried to retract his statement.
I am a 7th generation Texan. Yes My people have been here before the State of Texas was even a glimmer in the eyes of the ‘american governmont”. And yes, I do have the qaulifications to back tthat up. Names of my ancestors engraqved upon both the San Jacintio Monument, as well as the as the Alamo, and most of all GOLIAD!!!!!!! Do any of you stupid Yankees know what that is? COME AND TAKE IT! That is the banner that flew after the TWIN SISTERS.
Do you not understand what happened at the battle of Goliad? Drawing the black bean? I thought not
I thought not. All your BS about races and crossing borders……give me a break! There are so many Tejas towns named after their break with Santa Anna, especially after Mf. Juan Sequin. We here in the LONE STAR STAR STAR STATE, Don,t give the last behihnd of a rat’s behind what you all North of the Mason-Dixon Line think. But perhaps you can you can digest all of this information, despite your stuip actions.
You can all rollwver and play dead, but don’t you ever UNDERESTIMATE the power of Tejas.
one of you saw that Zeitgeist Documentary. I can tell from obvious reference…… Good movie. I am listening to treason. I live in fort worth and I saw the tea party protests. These people are not conservative. I am, but Ive lost faith these people arnt conservative they are neo conservative. The party was hijacked in 2002. Meaning that moderates have moved further and further to the right…. Is it coincedence that all this talk of succesion came from the most conservative state in the Union.At a time when BY ELECTION Repubs were kicked out of office? I think FOX News started all these talks. These people are dangerous for instance at the tea parties Glen Beck was at the Alamo mentioning succession and revolution several times to a cheering crowd of uninformed neo cons. Who by the way where protesting “Pork Barrel spending” Which by the way was the previous Congress vote THAT WAS LAST YEARS BUDGET……Thats not interesting but why protest Obama? Thats what I saw. People would be more pissed if He would of stopped a budget from going through…OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH wait he cant do that…….There are three branches of government along with checks and balances….. He couldnt do anything….there is no “Line Item Veto”…For all you idiots that dont know congress passed budget Bush signed..Here in America Id rather not see a President have a say over what Congress does…..Back to fox news they imply that anything that isnt conservative is immoral unethical….They have only been around since 1999 Is this what we will see everytime they dont get a canidate they like?……..This is the kind of national diolouge that FOX causes and its dangerous………..Funny how these right wing neo cons were the definition of patriot under bush and now they say screw the constitution after hes gone…..As a maater of fact they seem to be security threats……… The holocaust museuem in D.C. to Ben Tiller…….. I f TX. did succeed I’d leave and throw a bag of crap out the window before I crossed the state line….Im a U.S. citizen…… And I dont want to see where some experiment takes us………..People forget about the stimulus……… T.A.R.P. passed under Bush……T.A.R.P.s first go around Congress failed to pass…… The reaction was panic…..In September of 08 after T.A.R.P. failed to pass the DOW hit a all time low for a single day -777.68 Shredding trillions off of market value……Congress was forced to reconsider…..Then Oama came in…… When he said he saved jobs NEO CONS say weve lost 3 million…….I say it could of been ten…….. People dont understand that……. It was “Necessary and proper”
I find it interesting that when citizens of this nation object or protest against any form of what they perceive to be an infringement on their rights by government “Real Americans” shout ‘treason’. If one reads our history, specifically the Articles of Confederation, the Bill of Rights and moreover, the Constitution, you will note that the states as well as the people of this country are citizens of states. States confederated under a federal government which is by our constitution heavily restricted in its power to govern those states by the 10th Amendment.
Once a long time ago when the citizens of this land under another government asserted these very same rights they were labelled traitors. We forget that the very nature of our country allows us the right to self-determination. Our laws guarantee it. To suggest that the citizens of any state who discuss severing their relationship with the federal government are traitors is by its nature a rejection of the very principles upon which this nation was founded. I much prefer freedom to fascism. If you desire to leave Texas and go elsewhere please do but take your bag of crap with you. Remember, ‘Don’t Mess With Texas”. Littering is illegal here.
I am an American with over 23 years service in the Armrd Forces who served in three conflicts defending this nation and it’s people. I love my country but the day it ceases to guarantee and respect my rights and values I reserve the right as an American to either change the government or stop being an American. I’d sooner hang than be governed by a government that tramples my rights.
Patrick Henry was a traitor too and I’d be happy to follow him to that liberty tree.
Dan, I couldn’t agree with you more. Unfortunately after the Civil War there was a case argued in the Supreme Court called Texas v. White. The Supreme Court ruled secession illegal except under certain circumstances. The Supreme Court couldn’t rule flat out that secession was illegal because the 13 Colonies seceded from Great Britain, but they also couldn’t say that it was legal because that would make the Confederacy a sovereign nation meaning that the North waged an illegal war. So the SCOTUS said that the only way that a State can legally leave the Union is if all other States say they can leave or if the State wins sovereignty through Revolution AKA War. Texas has the right to self-determination and can declare it’s Independence, but can only become a Sovereign Nation if the US recognizes us as so or if we force recognition through a war. What I’m saying is that Texas has a right to leave, but the US also has the right to force us to stay. To the victor goes the spoils.
Thomas: you’re previous argument for TX succession seems to hinge on the argument that TX is a state by treaty. That’s not entirely correct, because TX did leave the Union along with the other confederate states, and was consequently defeated by the Union army. I think at that point, any consideration for the treaty was nullified.
But like I said before, I think it’s all just BS. TX doesn’t seriously want to leave. It’s stupid.
Dan: I wouldn’t take the word “treason” to mean the technical term deserving of hanging in these arguments. It seems a bit silly. Let’s say you decided to become Canadian because you were so disenchanted with the US. Some people may call you a traitor, but that’s a loose colloquial term, not a legal definition. Of course you can become Canadian without being hanged.
A treaty is irrelevant, the right for people to declare their Independence is based on whether they feel a government is illegitimate. Governments are only legitimate if they have the consent of the people; it’s called popular sovereignty and is within itself America. You may have heard it as “Of the People, By the People, and For the People”. If the Majority of the people in Texas declare the Federal Government illegitimate then it is illegitimate and thus Texas has a right to leave. To deny this fact it to say that Government has power over the people or that the rights of the people are derived from the rights of the government and if that is so then America ceases to be a Republic and is in fact a Tyrannical Nation. If we live in a Tyrannical Nation then we have a right to overthrow Tyranny, so no matter how you look at it we, as human beings, have the right to self-determination. And if they so determine to leave then Texas can leave. You have the right to stop them, but I doubt you could.
Also, the SCOTUS declared that Texas never ceased being a State and the people never ceased being US citizens. By the perspective of the Union Texas never left so nothing could be nullified. Any legal document made before the war and during the war, ie. sales, marriage and other contracts were all legal.
Also; What Treaty? I’ve never spoke about a Treaty, at least I don’t think I did.
Thomas, you’re absolutely correct. The right to self determination is undeniable but I suspect if ANY state voted overwhelmingly to leave the union and resolve to be a confederation affiliated with the US, the federal government would not take armed action to restore it. An assault upon the citizenry of any state would be such an egregious act that it would make the rest of the country realize they are equally likely to be suppressed by a government out of control in Washington. It would be the downfall of the Federal authorities. The only reason they went to war in 1865 was South Carolina’s foolish decision to fire on a US fort.
I suppose the SCOTUS argument holds some sway in constitutional law circles but the Supreme Court does not make laws or treaties. They simply make rulings on rulings that were within the purview of lower courts. I suspect if any state chose to leave, the SCOTUS would matter little. No one empowered them to regulate us anyway.
I do not believe there is a large movement in support of Texas leaving the union or any other state for that matter at present. But, the sentiment is growing in several states to include Vermont and New Hampshire. Distrust and disaffection with the federal government is growing rapidly across the US. It’s not along party lines either. Nor is it a ‘Fox News’ propaganda ploy as some have suggested.
“In 36 states, legislators have introduced resolutions declaring their sovereignty over matters including the right to bear arms, citing the Constitution’s 10th Amendment, which delineates the federal government’s powers.” (AP)
I submit that free Americans ought to support the right of other free Americans to preserve their freedom in whatever way their state sees fit. If the citizens of Illinois or Hawaii or North Dakota choose to leave the Union we’d be fools not to support them. The day Indiana tells Idaho what their rights are is the day we live in a police state. It’s no different with the federal government.
I expect to remain an American….. I imagine if we get so fed up with the way we’re governed the states will put the federal government out of the union rather disband the union. The threat of states leaving though is and should always be an ever present fear in the minds of the elected officials in Washington. It’ll make them govern with consideration and thoughtful reflection. And they need a good dose of that right now because people are sick of the intrusion of big government into their lives and pocket books. People want their lives and rights back.